• About

Saint Louis Catholic

~ Unabashedly Catholic News and Views

Saint Louis Catholic

Daily Archives: December 13, 2007

Whoa! Big News at Rorate Caeli re: Legion of Christ

13 Thursday Dec 2007

Posted by thetimman in Faith Matters, General Catholic News/Opinion

≈ 1 Comment

Post with comments at Rorate Caeli:

Pope repeals “secret vows” of the Legion of Christ

Excerpt of an article published yesterday by the Mexican daily La Jornada:

The derogation of the secret vows of the Legionaries.The Pope has derogated the private vows of the Legionaries of Christ, precisely those which were used by the superiors of this religious congregation to protect themselves from possible complaints. The sources of news agencies indicate that these are “parallel measures” to the disciplinary penalty imposed on Marcial Maciel for sexual abuses in 2006.

Pope Benedict XVI had personally asked for the repeal of the private vows professed by the seminarians and priests of the Legionaries of Christ. These were oaths, related to the internal life of the order, which assured its secrecy and impermeability: the first [oath of “charity”] prevented any kind of criticism of superiors and their decisions by members, while the second [oath of “humility”] forbade the religious men from aspiring to positions within it.

______________________

Is there any parallel move planned with any other congregation?

Whoa! Big News at Rorate Caeli re: Legion of Christ

13 Thursday Dec 2007

Posted by thetimman in General Catholic News/Opinion

≈ 1 Comment

Post with comments at Rorate Caeli:

Pope repeals “secret vows” of the Legion of Christ

Excerpt of an article published yesterday by the Mexican daily La Jornada:

The derogation of the secret vows of the Legionaries.The Pope has derogated the private vows of the Legionaries of Christ, precisely those which were used by the superiors of this religious congregation to protect themselves from possible complaints. The sources of news agencies indicate that these are “parallel measures” to the disciplinary penalty imposed on Marcial Maciel for sexual abuses in 2006.

Pope Benedict XVI had personally asked for the repeal of the private vows professed by the seminarians and priests of the Legionaries of Christ. These were oaths, related to the internal life of the order, which assured its secrecy and impermeability: the first [oath of “charity”] prevented any kind of criticism of superiors and their decisions by members, while the second [oath of “humility”] forbade the religious men from aspiring to positions within it.

______________________

Is there any parallel move planned with any other congregation?

"Friend and Sister" of St. Cronan’s

13 Thursday Dec 2007

Posted by thetimman in General Catholic News/Opinion, Local Catholic News

≈ 10 Comments

The Post-Dispatch story from yesterday on the St. Cronan’s event contains the following text:

Their church building — big, warm and dry — stood just yards away, but the St. Cronan parishioners had decided that they’d rather be cold and wet than without a woman they called their “friend and sister,” Rabbi Susan Talve of Central Reform Congregation.

Talve has spoken at St. Cronan’s, a parish known for its progressive social activism, during many previous prayer services during the Advent season. But this year, the pastoral leadership received a phone call from St. Louis Archbishop Raymond Burke, asking them to revoke Talve’s invitation.

I have received a lot of feedback on the St. Cronan’s post– both positive and negative. Some of those defending the non-protest vespers protest on Sunday pointed to the fact that the presence of Rabbi Talve is a tradition at St. Cronan’s. Without addressing the obvious issue of just why would a Catholic parish routinely invite a leader of another faith to lead its advent reflections, there are other factors that make this particular choice inappropriate.

This speech occurred back in March 2006 at Aquinas Institute, itself the subject of a visit by Vatican officials in the wake of the abuse scandal and the resulting investigation of the course content and formation of all seminaries. See this story from NCR for general info, and this report from KSDK for specifics as to Aquinas. In her speech, the Rabbi offers her insights on, among other things, the sin of the Israelites and the golden calf. She gives an interesting spin on it– and I don’t want to be accused of taking these remarks out of context, thus the link to the full speech above.

From an Evening Prayer Reflection by Rabbi Susan Talve on the Occasion of the Aquinas Lecture
March 9, 2006


…The sin of the golden calf is the sin of certainty, believing that we can know what we cannot know, losing all humility, and from this sin, despite Moses’ pleas for forgiveness, many of us die. We learn that the price for the certainty is great.

Like the golden calf, the sin of certainty reduces the complex nature of creation to a single simple response that leaves no room for interpretation. The sin of certainty is what keeps us from tempering passion with compassion. The sin of certainty also has room for only one idea. It is what keeps us from listening to alternative views with open minds to receive new information and ideas that could change our beliefs not for political or self serving reasons but because our hearts have opened to them.

[…]

To counter the sin of certainty, we try to produce souls who are not afraid to interpret situations in multiple ways and offer arguments for different positions and points of view with a kind of humility that always remembers that this is the human point of view and not Gods.

The sin of certainty always limits us and keeps us from the wonder and the promise of the possibilities for healing and hope in our mishkan.

[…]

The calf tells us that we need to be certain to commit to a relationship or a goal and that questioning and doubt are weakness. With the golden calf we see a frozen reflection of what is and we become attached to it even if it is no longer true or good for us. We are trapped in the certainty that this is the only way; the only solution, the only path and we cling to it even when it isn’t right for us anymore. The mishkan always leaves the space for doubt and allows us to take risks that will grow into greater love, greater opportunity.

[…]

I’ll bet Thomas Aquinas never imagined these two Jewish women would be preaching and teaching in his mishkan on his feast day!…

Now, of course, as a Rabbi, Susan Talve should not be expected to hold a Catholic view on any particular matter, or of any point of scriptural exegesis. She has her own religious convictions. That is precisely the point, though. Is it not? The reflections above seem to give comfort to those persons who consider themselves both Catholic and progressive. Those who believe that holding to “certainty” may foreclose them to greater gifts. Those who believe that the truths of Catholicism aren’t something that can be defined by the authority of the Pope but rather are the result of an ongoing dialectic in which dissent of the “faithful” is a force for a slow realization of the truth given by God that the faithful themselves determine. In fact, precisely the kind of thing condemned in the strongest possible terms by Pope St. Pius X in Pascendi.

With regard to the public actions of Rabbi Talve, we have as the foremost problem her congregation’s hosting of the infamous fake ordinations in defiance of the request of the Archbishop. Moreover, she was featured in one of the “stories of hope” on the site of the euphemistically named “Missouri Coalition for Lifesaving Cures”, supporters of Amendment 2, that amended Missouri’s constitution to protect embryonic stem cell research.

Everything that I have covered above may be perfectly in line with the religious traditions of Judaism, of which I am certainly not an expert. I will also assume that she is 100% in good faith as to the motivation for her actions and beliefs. Great. But the point is that these positions and actions make her a person that a Catholic parish true to its name, its faith, and its duty, would never invite to lead a prayer service for its members.

"Friend and Sister" of St. Cronan’s

13 Thursday Dec 2007

Posted by thetimman in General Catholic News/Opinion, Local Catholic News

≈ 10 Comments

The Post-Dispatch story from yesterday on the St. Cronan’s event contains the following text:

Their church building — big, warm and dry — stood just yards away, but the St. Cronan parishioners had decided that they’d rather be cold and wet than without a woman they called their “friend and sister,” Rabbi Susan Talve of Central Reform Congregation.

Talve has spoken at St. Cronan’s, a parish known for its progressive social activism, during many previous prayer services during the Advent season. But this year, the pastoral leadership received a phone call from St. Louis Archbishop Raymond Burke, asking them to revoke Talve’s invitation.

I have received a lot of feedback on the St. Cronan’s post– both positive and negative. Some of those defending the non-protest vespers protest on Sunday pointed to the fact that the presence of Rabbi Talve is a tradition at St. Cronan’s. Without addressing the obvious issue of just why would a Catholic parish routinely invite a leader of another faith to lead its advent reflections, there are other factors that make this particular choice inappropriate.

This speech occurred back in March 2006 at Aquinas Institute, itself the subject of a visit by Vatican officials in the wake of the abuse scandal and the resulting investigation of the course content and formation of all seminaries. See this story from NCR for general info, and this report from KSDK for specifics as to Aquinas. In her speech, the Rabbi offers her insights on, among other things, the sin of the Israelites and the golden calf. She gives an interesting spin on it– and I don’t want to be accused of taking these remarks out of context, thus the link to the full speech above.

From an Evening Prayer Reflection by Rabbi Susan Talve on the Occasion of the Aquinas Lecture
March 9, 2006


…The sin of the golden calf is the sin of certainty, believing that we can know what we cannot know, losing all humility, and from this sin, despite Moses’ pleas for forgiveness, many of us die. We learn that the price for the certainty is great.

Like the golden calf, the sin of certainty reduces the complex nature of creation to a single simple response that leaves no room for interpretation. The sin of certainty is what keeps us from tempering passion with compassion. The sin of certainty also has room for only one idea. It is what keeps us from listening to alternative views with open minds to receive new information and ideas that could change our beliefs not for political or self serving reasons but because our hearts have opened to them.

[…]

To counter the sin of certainty, we try to produce souls who are not afraid to interpret situations in multiple ways and offer arguments for different positions and points of view with a kind of humility that always remembers that this is the human point of view and not Gods.

The sin of certainty always limits us and keeps us from the wonder and the promise of the possibilities for healing and hope in our mishkan.

[…]

The calf tells us that we need to be certain to commit to a relationship or a goal and that questioning and doubt are weakness. With the golden calf we see a frozen reflection of what is and we become attached to it even if it is no longer true or good for us. We are trapped in the certainty that this is the only way; the only solution, the only path and we cling to it even when it isn’t right for us anymore. The mishkan always leaves the space for doubt and allows us to take risks that will grow into greater love, greater opportunity.

[…]

I’ll bet Thomas Aquinas never imagined these two Jewish women would be preaching and teaching in his mishkan on his feast day!…

Now, of course, as a Rabbi, Susan Talve should not be expected to hold a Catholic view on any particular matter, or of any point of scriptural exegesis. She has her own religious convictions. That is precisely the point, though. Is it not? The reflections above seem to give comfort to those persons who consider themselves both Catholic and progressive. Those who believe that holding to “certainty” may foreclose them to greater gifts. Those who believe that the truths of Catholicism aren’t something that can be defined by the authority of the Pope but rather are the result of an ongoing dialectic in which dissent of the “faithful” is a force for a slow realization of the truth given by God that the faithful themselves determine. In fact, precisely the kind of thing condemned in the strongest possible terms by Pope St. Pius X in Pascendi.

With regard to the public actions of Rabbi Talve, we have as the foremost problem her congregation’s hosting of the infamous fake ordinations in defiance of the request of the Archbishop. Moreover, she was featured in one of the “stories of hope” on the site of the euphemistically named “Missouri Coalition for Lifesaving Cures”, supporters of Amendment 2, that amended Missouri’s constitution to protect embryonic stem cell research.

Everything that I have covered above may be perfectly in line with the religious traditions of Judaism, of which I am certainly not an expert. I will also assume that she is 100% in good faith as to the motivation for her actions and beliefs. Great. But the point is that these positions and actions make her a person that a Catholic parish true to its name, its faith, and its duty, would never invite to lead a prayer service for its members.

Unabashedly Catholic News and Views

This site is dedicated to our Blessed Mother, and I ask for her maternal help and protection.
cestello Ego mater pulchrae dilectionis, et timoris, et agnitionis, et sanctae spei. In me gratia omnis viae et veritatis: in me omnis spes vitae et virtutis.

Blogroll

  • Archdiocese of Saint Louis
  • Barnhardt
  • Bongino Report
  • Canon 212
  • Catholic Movie Guy
  • Children of God for Life
  • Fisheaters
  • Fr. Hunwicke's Mutual Enrichment
  • Gab Trends
  • Ignatius His Conclave
  • Latin Vulgate/English Translation Site
  • Rorate Caeli
  • Sons of the Most Holy Redeemer
  • STLToday
  • Stumbling Block
  • The Badger Catholic
  • The Remnant
  • Thesaurus Precum Latinarum

Recent Comments

thetimman on Strike Another Match, Go Start…
ATW on Strike Another Match, Go Start…
mortiz356 on Strike Another Match, Go Start…
thetimman on Strike Another Match, Go Start…
Canon212 Update: Men… on Strike Another Match, Go Start…

Enter your email address to follow this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email.

Join 81 other followers

Recent Posts

  • Strike Another Match, Go Start Anew
  • Breaking: Approved Content Now Available
  • 2021, Fatima, and Right Reason
  • The Truth Indeed
  • Katie Hopkins Posting from D.C.

Blogs I Follow

  • TxTradCatholic
  • Catholic Movie Guy
  • actions speak louder
  • Local Travel Junkie
  • The Party's Over
  • Saint Louis Catholic
  • WordPress.com

Archives

  • January 2021
  • December 2020
  • November 2020
  • October 2020
  • September 2020
  • August 2020
  • July 2020
  • June 2020
  • May 2020
  • April 2020
  • March 2020
  • February 2020
  • January 2020
  • December 2019
  • November 2019
  • October 2019
  • September 2019
  • August 2019
  • July 2019
  • June 2019
  • May 2019
  • April 2019
  • March 2019
  • February 2019
  • January 2019
  • December 2018
  • November 2018
  • October 2018
  • September 2018
  • August 2018
  • July 2018
  • June 2018
  • May 2018
  • April 2018
  • March 2018
  • February 2018
  • March 2012
  • February 2012
  • January 2012
  • December 2011
  • November 2011
  • October 2011
  • September 2011
  • August 2011
  • July 2011
  • June 2011
  • May 2011
  • April 2011
  • March 2011
  • February 2011
  • January 2011
  • December 2010
  • November 2010
  • October 2010
  • September 2010
  • August 2010
  • July 2010
  • June 2010
  • May 2010
  • April 2010
  • March 2010
  • February 2010
  • January 2010
  • December 2009
  • November 2009
  • October 2009
  • September 2009
  • August 2009
  • July 2009
  • June 2009
  • May 2009
  • April 2009
  • March 2009
  • February 2009
  • January 2009
  • December 2008
  • November 2008
  • October 2008
  • September 2008
  • August 2008
  • July 2008
  • June 2008
  • May 2008
  • April 2008
  • March 2008
  • February 2008
  • January 2008
  • December 2007
  • November 2007
  • October 2007
  • September 2007
  • August 2007
  • July 2007
  • June 2007
  • May 2007
  • April 2007
  • March 2007
  • February 2007

Top Posts

  • Strike Another Match, Go Start Anew
  • News from the Oratory
  • 2021, Fatima, and Right Reason
  • Breaking: Approved Content Now Available
  • People with Spines React to a Scamdemic Lockdown
  • Archbishop Carlson's Installation Mass Set for June 10, 2009--UPDATED
  • Archbishop Carlson's Installation Mass Set for June 10, 2009--UPDATED
  • …
  • Notes from the Bowl, Vol. I: "The Contraception Mandate"
  • Simple, Practical Steps to Increase the Reverence of the Ordinary Form of Mass

Blog Stats (add 2,240,581 from blogspot, 2007-18)

  • 186,687 hits
December 2007
S M T W T F S
 1
2345678
9101112131415
16171819202122
23242526272829
3031  
« Nov   Jan »

“YOU ARE THE ONES WHO ARE HAPPY; YOU WHO REMAIN WITHIN THE CHURCH BY YOUR FAITH, WHO HOLD FIRMLY TO THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE FAITH WHICH HAS COME DOWN TO YOU FROM APOSTOLIC TRADITION. AND IF AN EXECRABLE JEALOUSY HAS TRIED TO SHAKE IT ON A NUMBER OF OCCASIONS, IT HAS NOT SUCCEEDED. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE BROKEN AWAY FROM IT IN THE PRESENT CRISIS. NO ONE, EVER, WILL PREVAIL AGAINST YOUR FAITH, BELOVED BROTHERS. AND WE BELIEVE THAT GOD WILL GIVE US OUR CHURCHES BACK SOME DAY.”

— ST. ATHANASIUS

Blog at WordPress.com.

TxTradCatholic

Catholic Movie Guy

Because Catholics Like Movies Too

actions speak louder

a blog stating actions speak more loudly than words. go figure.

Local Travel Junkie

Addicted to travel, not the tour groups.

The Party's Over

The Blog with Less and Less to Say

Saint Louis Catholic

Unabashedly Catholic News and Views

WordPress.com

WordPress.com is the best place for your personal blog or business site.