Were they Cardinals going in or Cardinals going out?
I’ve Asked It before; I’ll Ask It again
28 Sunday Aug 2022
Posted in pope v. antipope
The Party's Over
The Blog with Less and Less to Say
In Ministerium Maiorum
Catholicism from a traditional perspective.
Catholic Movie Guy
Because Catholics Like Movies Too
Local Travel Junkie
Addicted to travel, not the tour groups.
Saint Louis Catholic
Unabashedly Catholic News and Views
WordPress.com
WordPress.com is the best place for your personal blog or business site.
Saint Louis Catholic
%d bloggers like this:
Excellent question. I hope we get a full answer soon.
…and I was really hoping and praying that the question would be resolved before this latest effort to pack the College with followers of the New Religion. Still counting on the Holy Ghost to have a surprise or two up his metaphorical sleeve.
Neither. A double headed monster cannot be the Church.
I think a lot of this will not go the way PF thinks it will. Hey, I’ll go out on a limb: the LORD is smarter than this horrible Pope.
Ratzinger “is the true Pope. After Bergoglio they will all be antipopes”: the jurist’s opinion
https://sfero.me/article/ratzinger-is-the-true-pope-after
An excellent article. I intend to post on it this week. Thx
Bergoglio “kissed the ring of Pope (emeritus is impossible) Benedict XVI”.
Case closed. Game over. The pretense is silly. We have an antipope.
That the SSPX exists is “proof” the council and it’s “popes” are false.
The fact the SSPX is not BiP is “proof” they are in error as to the validity of the post conciliar “popes”.
An antipope kissing another antipope’s ring is evidence they are of the same “religion”….that of antiChrist.
Sede Vacante is the only position which does not contradict nor change the Catholic teaching/meaning of the papacy. Just because the position cannot answer everything does not make it incorrect. The confusion is the chastisement.
Kono,
I have read your “proofs” that the Seat is vacant, including the ones you give above. They are not proofs. They are anecdotes.
The proofs that Pope Benedict never left his Papal Office and remains Pope are quantifiable and observable – including that he still wears the Piscatory Ring (etc). There can be but one Pope.
When he dies, the Seat will be vacant, and then we will have a problem. And I will remain, then, within the Apostolic Line of Holy Mother Church with the Society of St. Pius X, whose young Priests will guide me and mine and all the others through the coming confusion and chaos – *within the Sacraments* – loyal to the Church and submissive to Apostolic authority, rightly ordered.
You, and all Sedes, will be cut off and adrift.
All Traditional Orders are growing and thriving and attracting confused Catholics seeking safe harbor. They carefully protect the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass within the Apostolic Line, from which only Priestly authority is possible. They carefully transmit the Faith to the confused within the Sacraments and within the Apostolic Line, loyal to the Church, even as they correct error in the Church. The importance of this *cannot* be overstated. They, we, persevere. The restoration will come from this.
Aqua, doesn’t the SSPX leadership acknowledge Bergoglio as pope? I realize there are likely priests (and perhaps bishops?) who would be in the other camp. That’s true in my corner of the Church as well. I’m sure the truth will out, and I am confident the greater part will follow the truth so acknowledged, whatever the final reveal shows.
And by “greater part”, I mean greater part of the traditional societies, small as we are. And yet growing…
“Doesn’t the SSPX leadership acknowledge Bergoglio as pope?”
Yes. And no doubt about it. I have had more than one conversation with my Priests about that, looking for a satisfactory explanation. It took me awhile to grasp and accept the logic and truth of what they say. While I still don’t agree with their conclusion – and I consider it a core Society position – I do agree with a key part of their premise that leads them there.
In sum, (paraphrased from my memory): “We are not required, as a matter of Faith, to agree on which person occupies the Holy Seat of Peter; there have been disagreements before, many have been of vital importance; disagreements on who can be vital and are a part of our history; while we disagree on who, and publically debate the case, we must still be obedient – *to the extent we can* – (my emphasis) to the occupant the Church has given us; we *MUST* accept the authority of the Seat itself, as a Divine institution, ordained by God”. The Apostle’s Creed is the crystallized essence of our Roman Catholic Faith. The current Pope’s name is not in the Apostle’s Creed, nor is the Papal Office even mentioned”.
IOW: (1) My belief about the heretical two-headed Papacy, invalid resignation, resulting antipapacy and the reigning, hidden Pope does not exclude me from full communion with the Catholic Church and valid Sacramental communion. (2) Their belief (even if proven mistaken one day) does not present a crisis of faith for me, nor does it alter their authority within the Apostolic line. We live within the Constant Magisterium of Sacred Tradition with the “cards we are dealt”, in our brief turn within Church Militant.
The Church exists (1) in the present, intimately, in the circumstances of my personal life (as for us all) … it also exists (2) outside of time as the Mystical Body in all Her divine perfection. We struggle it out and dispute, sometimes messily, within the former sphere. We have full faith and confidence in the latter sphere.
And one addendum, to my comments above …
“Obedience to the occupant the Church has given us, to the extent we can …”
Obedience, rightly ordered.
That is a matter of great discernment. Obedience is not meant to be blind, as if the Pope were a god or an unfailing vessel of perfection … which inevitably leads to great disappointment (the Pope is human – embodied by the betrayals and failures of our Church’s greatest Saint, Peter – and no god) and ultimately, therefor, leads to Sede Vacantism, imo.
Obedience, rightly ordered. Eyes firmly fixed on Christ (1), through the Blessed Mother(2), and the intercession of the Angels and Saints (3), with the help and assistance of the Holy Father and the Apostles and under their God-given authority (4), in union with the Communion of Saints(5), to achieve the Beatific Vision … in that order, and towards no other goal than that.
Aqua,
If the VII Church and it’s popes are valid, the sede has nothing to worry about:
This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him, although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity. (Lumen Gentium, 8)
By default, the false ecumenism would include SVists.
As to my “proofs”, note that I put quotation marks around proof. Of course they are not air tight, solid proofs that would hold up in a court of law. I mentioned them in response to your insinuating the ring kissing was “proof” of Benedict being pope.
BTW, have you ever gotten a satisfactory answer from SSPX as to why, exactly they insist an openly blaspheming heretic is Pope?Even if one doesn’t believe there’s anything wrong with Benedict’s resignation, surely such devout, learned priests can see what you see.
Kono,
I guess I’ve just wrapped my head around what is happening and why, in a way that makes sense to me. I’ve identified the Pope, to my satisfaction, with the knowledge and affirmation of my Priest. The chaos of the Church around me and mine is no longer threatening to our faith, because we understand it, the forces behind it and see the pathway through it to the other side. It took me awhile, but I am confident moving forward.
Back in the day, I used to fly airplanes for a living. On the rare approach, during turbulent, gusty, windshear type conditions, the airplane’s natural flight path would be up and down, left and right with airspeed fluctuating fast and slow as it flew through the unstable weather conditions. The worst thing a pilot can do is respond to every impetus from the weather outside on the airplane flying through it. The airplane (like the “Ark”, the Church) is naturally aerodynamically stable. It *wants* to return to the stable trimmed up state, set by the pilot for the conditions. Responding to every outside influence merely causes confusion and expanding instability. It (direct response to every outside impetus) becomes very uncomfortable and ultimately becomes impossible, unsafe to continue. Just let the forces have their *temporary* way, accept the *momentary* deviations away from neutral, let the airplane (Ark, Church) do what it does best – fly on a stable path, as previously trimmed and set by the pilot (valid Apostolic authority within the Constant Magisterium outside of time – ultimately, Christ [if I may be so bold]). Stop grasping the controls so hard and just let the airplane fly. Easy!
That’s how I see this current crisis. My Catholic faith is not wrapped up in the Pope’s true identity. As I said above, my SSPX Priests have all confirmed this is valid. I see Jesus, through Mary, I kneel at the foot of the Cross at Calvary’s hill, and I see the Church outside of time in all Her Magisterial glory outside of time. I profess and proclaim every word and punctuation mark of the Apostle’s Creed. I live within the world and cultivate a spirit of Charity, both in word and deed (I’m trying, by God’s grace and frequent recourse to confession).
God bless,
Aqua
The malaise caused by this (non-) abdication and (anti-) papacy is affecting us all. I am hitting confession harder than ever but am buffeted by difficulties in keeping going. I place all my hope in the Blessed Mother.
I get why anyone might get a different answer on the pope’s identity. I submit to the Roman Pontiff, whomever he is. In the meantime we must carry the light of charity high. So many are under siege.
Oremus pro invicem.
Aqua,
Who, exactly, decides “Obedience, rightly ordered”? You? An SSPX priest who believes or publicly professes Bergoglio is pope? An SSPX priest who secretly agrees with you that B16 is Pope? Or maybe an SSPX priest who is secretly sede? No. “Obedience, rightly ordered” is what Protestants do and it ultimately makes you your own pope and destroys the nature and notion of the papacy.
Kono ,
We’re fine. I’m not remotely worried about it.
Aqua