Rorate is publishing that it has tracked credible rumors that Bergoglio’s cabal is soon to come out with what it hopes is the kill shot on the Traditional Latin Mass (And you must understand that Rorate has it first; it had TC first; it has everything first. Don’t you forget it!). And let’s assume for argument that these rumors are true.
I was not the first, but I have written on the Papal Bull of Pope St. Pius V, Quo Primum, as well as the canon law principle that immemorial custom has the force of law. Thus, no pope has the ability to abrogate the Mass, even if he wanted to. I hope I don’t need to revisit this, but I will when and if necessary.
In light of the Rorate post, assuming accuracy, I again ask two questions:
- Do you still think it doesn’t matter if Bergoglio is pope or not?; and,
- What are you prepared to do?
Saint Louis Catholic 
Any horror Francis perpetrates will not be unexpected. And I do consider him an antipope. But a comment I have made numerous times on other websites: Paul VI did worse to the Old Mass than Francis has so far done, and he has somehow been canonized. Was he an antipope, too? (Many would agree.) Or is the Church off the hook because Francis “canonized” him?
What a terrible confusion!
I accept the judgement of the Church— that is the beginning and end of my reply. The middle is that I simply don’t know. I have read lots of arguments on the Bergoglian saintmaking process making these “canonizations” somehow not canonizations, even if he were pope. I choose not to decide such an issue, but instead fall back on the first point— is Bergoglio the pope or isnt he?
Because, unlike the Vicar of Christ when there is one, I am not infallible when speaking on faith and morals, and thus I could be wrong on all my conclusions, I leave it as a matter pf probabilities and practical decision-making until all is made clear in time.
Timman, you hit on the point that almost no one seems to mention ever – Quo Primum. To say that the ancient Mass could ever be killed is an impossibility because of that bull of 1570. And yet, I can’t find much evidence of anyone bringing this up in 1969. Perhaps if they had we wouldn’t be in this mess. Also, all of this presumes Bergoglio is the pope which he is, of course, not. I know what I am prepared to do.
Of course it matters whether Bergoglio is the pope. That said, I haven’t considered his “papacy” legitimate in years, because he has done things that bespeak contempt for the Faith and for the faithful, which a genuine Holy Father would never do. Yes, he tries to confuse those still on the fence by throwing them the occasional Catholic-sounding bone, but imo this is trickery and doesn’t matter. I feel quite free of any duty to obey Bergoglio, and am *not* prepared to abandon the TLM.
He is of course the Pope, just a very bad Pope which the church has had in the past and will indeed survive this one. We are not obliged to obey anything coming from the Pope that is unjust. I would take a look at Dr. Kwasniewski’s book “True Obedience.” Michael Davies also made excellent points on obedience in his famous 1993 debate with Dr. E. Michael Jones over SSPX and schism, which is on YouTube.
“He is of course the Pope…” Really? What is it about any of the past 11 years that convinces you that Bergoglio is definitely Pope, when he does things a Pope should be incapable of doing under the divinely instituted Petrine Promises? Check your base premise, dude.
@Mark Docherty, why does not the same criteria apply to the Mass and Sacrament destroying P6 and Assisi praying, “Muslims worship the same god” Catechism JP2? How can the Divinely Protected popes do that?
“…which a genuine Holy Father would never do.”
I think you mean, “could never do”. The distinction is key to understanding the mess we’re in.
I’m not sure whether or not the SSPX will be impacted but I plan to stay close to them as I believe that will be our most reliable means to access to the Mass of All Time.
I can see that, but they are so much the beneficiaries of the Francismercy that they are also under big pressure. It will be instructive at last to see how the traditional communities react to any shenanigans.
I agree, which is a big concern I have as well. I don’t know what other options we have. Hopefully a new St. Athanasius/Lefebvre type figure will emerge.
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